Comments on: The hypocrisy of burqa banning http://noblesavage.me.uk/2009/08/19/the-hypocrisy-of-burqa-banning/ Tue, 29 Nov 2011 22:50:07 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Tuesday Tidbits | Femagination http://noblesavage.me.uk/2009/08/19/the-hypocrisy-of-burqa-banning/comment-page-1/#comment-3592 Tuesday Tidbits | Femagination Tue, 25 Aug 2009 09:24:20 +0000 http://noblesavage.me.uk/?p=545#comment-3592 [...] Savage writes an excellent post about “The Hypocrisy of Burqa Banning.” [...] [...] Savage writes an excellent post about “The Hypocrisy of Burqa Banning.” [...]

]]> By: andrea http://noblesavage.me.uk/2009/08/19/the-hypocrisy-of-burqa-banning/comment-page-1/#comment-3574 andrea Sun, 23 Aug 2009 19:57:24 +0000 http://noblesavage.me.uk/?p=545#comment-3574 Saudi is often called the most conservative place on earth. I think that's an insult to conservatives. I see what you're saying, but Saudi is not the model for Islam. Saudi Islam is where Islam went to die. I'm serious. That's the most fucked up place on earth. I loved reading all the comments here, and I think it's such an interesting issue. Thanks to NS for bringing it up so lucidly and eloquently. Saudi is often called the most conservative place on earth. I think that’s an insult to conservatives. I see what you’re saying, but Saudi is not the model for Islam. Saudi Islam is where Islam went to die. I’m serious. That’s the most fucked up place on earth.

I loved reading all the comments here, and I think it’s such an interesting issue. Thanks to NS for bringing it up so lucidly and eloquently.

]]> By: Frost At Midnight http://noblesavage.me.uk/2009/08/19/the-hypocrisy-of-burqa-banning/comment-page-1/#comment-3562 Frost At Midnight Sat, 22 Aug 2009 13:31:26 +0000 http://noblesavage.me.uk/?p=545#comment-3562 An old schoolmate of mine has this quote that I quite like and think is relevant to the thought of women wearing burquas everywhere: "The absolute absence of women in the public space is the most disorienting aspect of being in Saudi. Those that are present are shapeless, expressionless, noiseless figures usually accessorized with small children. Were there any other women walking to the mall or anywhere else? Of course there weren't, because there are no women visible anywhere in public." Kind of creepy. The rest of the post is here http://carpetblog.typepad.com/carpetblogger/2009/04/saudi-orientation.html and I love all of Carpetblogger's blog in general and her views about life away from the West. An old schoolmate of mine has this quote that I quite like and think is relevant to the thought of women wearing burquas everywhere:

“The absolute absence of women in the public space is the most disorienting aspect of being in Saudi. Those that are present are shapeless, expressionless, noiseless figures usually accessorized with small children. Were there any other women walking to the mall or anywhere else? Of course there weren’t, because there are no women visible anywhere in public.”

Kind of creepy. The rest of the post is here http://carpetblog.typepad.com/carpetblogger/2009/04/saudi-orientation.html and I love all of Carpetblogger’s blog in general and her views about life away from the West.

]]> By: Iota http://noblesavage.me.uk/2009/08/19/the-hypocrisy-of-burqa-banning/comment-page-1/#comment-3561 Iota Sat, 22 Aug 2009 11:47:48 +0000 http://noblesavage.me.uk/?p=545#comment-3561 i can't abide it when I see women on tv talking about how their cosmetic surgery did wonders for their self-confidence. How truly sad that we are bringing up our children in a society where their self-worth is wrapped up in the size of their body parts, or their hairstyles, or the way they make up their face for that matter. I saw a new oncologist this week, and he was surprised that I hadn't opted for reconstructive breast surgery after double mastectomy. He said "you're young, you're fit..." to which I had the presence of mind (doesn't often happen) to reply "I'm young, I'm fit, and I'm happy". I don't think he was pressurising me. Just found me something of an anomaly, I think. But of course it made me feel "am I weird among women? does EVERYONE have reconstruction except me?" and that was slightly pressurising. I agree with you that there is a parallel: Western women are pressured to look a certain way just as Burqa-wearing Muslim women. And we're led to believe it's all our own free choice. It is too complex an issue just to ban the burqa. i can’t abide it when I see women on tv talking about how their cosmetic surgery did wonders for their self-confidence. How truly sad that we are bringing up our children in a society where their self-worth is wrapped up in the size of their body parts, or their hairstyles, or the way they make up their face for that matter.

I saw a new oncologist this week, and he was surprised that I hadn’t opted for reconstructive breast surgery after double mastectomy. He said

“you’re young, you’re fit…”

to which I had the presence of mind (doesn’t often happen) to reply

“I’m young, I’m fit, and I’m happy”.

I don’t think he was pressurising me. Just found me something of an anomaly, I think. But of course it made me feel “am I weird among women? does EVERYONE have reconstruction except me?” and that was slightly pressurising.

I agree with you that there is a parallel: Western women are pressured to look a certain way just as Burqa-wearing Muslim women. And we’re led to believe it’s all our own free choice. It is too complex an issue just to ban the burqa.

]]> By: Mercy http://noblesavage.me.uk/2009/08/19/the-hypocrisy-of-burqa-banning/comment-page-1/#comment-3559 Mercy Fri, 21 Aug 2009 20:59:49 +0000 http://noblesavage.me.uk/?p=545#comment-3559 Agree with the points made that some women do (for whatever reason) chose to wear the burqa and if you are going to ban it because it's a symbol of oppression then that ban should go hand in hand with a ban on breast implants, high heels and skimpy/restrictive clothing too even though some women chose to have/wear them. One aspect that hasn't been touched on is this: broadly speaking in Western societies, a covered face (whether with a veil or hand covering mouth, etc) is culturally recognised as hiding something or dishonest - a widow used to wear a veil to signify her withdrawal from society due to grief, a bride covers her face to signify her withrawal from other man but reveals her face to her husband during the marriage ceremony, the liar fidgets, puts their hand over their mouth. I think therefore there is an argument for burqa-wearing women and men who favour burqas to re-think the veil particularly if living in Western societies. I declare an interest in that I'm hard of hearing and sometimes need to lip read. It is very awkward trying to talk to someone with a veil over their face because I can't see that I've made my hearing problem clear and that she understands I need her to uncover her mouth. Agree with the points made that some women do (for whatever reason) chose to wear the burqa and if you are going to ban it because it’s a symbol of oppression then that ban should go hand in hand with a ban on breast implants, high heels and skimpy/restrictive clothing too even though some women chose to have/wear them.

One aspect that hasn’t been touched on is this: broadly speaking in Western societies, a covered face (whether with a veil or hand covering mouth, etc) is culturally recognised as hiding something or dishonest – a widow used to wear a veil to signify her withdrawal from society due to grief, a bride covers her face to signify her withrawal from other man but reveals her face to her husband during the marriage ceremony, the liar fidgets, puts their hand over their mouth. I think therefore there is an argument for burqa-wearing women and men who favour burqas to re-think the veil particularly if living in Western societies.

I declare an interest in that I’m hard of hearing and sometimes need to lip read. It is very awkward trying to talk to someone with a veil over their face because I can’t see that I’ve made my hearing problem clear and that she understands I need her to uncover her mouth.

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