Socialism fever: America is dying
NS August 10th, 2009
I got this email from a family member yesterday, who was passing it on from a friend of a friend. As I sat there reading the forwarded message, which was written by an American woman who’d received health care while visiting Scotland last month, I found myself growing very angry and depressingly sad. This woman used her story to “prove” that socialized medicine doesn’t work, is inhumane and utterly inferior to the system in the USA. I almost couldn’t make it to the end of the email and had to stop myself from Replying All and letting loose with a detailed response. Instead, I’m posting it here.
This is what was contained in the email:
I, Karen Sparks, found myself in need of hospitalization and surgery while I was visiting Scotland in July 2009. I had a critical health issue and had emergency surgery within 7 hours of admittance to the UK National Health Care system at the Royal Aberdeen Infirmary for a septic knee.
My first stop was a dingy ward room to speak to a doctor to evaluate me. There were people there waiting to get a bed in the hospital for treatment, but no beds were available to them until someone else left. I had some tests done and then i was sent to my bed upstairs. I was fortunate to get one. It was a shock to me to be put in a ward room with 6 other women. I had not saw that since I was a child. I was being told I would soon have my surgery by a doctor who was not going to be my surgeon. I never ever saw the person who operated on me. I only saw doctors and interns who had been in a general meeting about the surgerys of that night. That is not any way to get any clear answers to your questions or fears. You really don't know anything when you are there.
My husband was beside himself and followed the gurney to wait to talk to the surgeon. As we got to the elevator the nurse told my husband he could not come down to surgery and there are no provisions for waiting during surgery. He could see me the next day at 2pm visiting hours! It was now 10:30PM. You do not get public relations in government health care systems.
Now he had to call home and tell my mother ,who was worried sick, he did not know a thing about how I made it through surgery and wouldn't until the next afternoon. He did hide out in the hospital during my surgery but did not know anything about how I did, all he saw was me going back to my ward. Actually you never see any doctors as a family member unless you get lucky and they come speak to them at visiting hours, but you have to ask. It makes you feel totally at their mercy without much say in your own life or treatment.
I was assigned to a womens orthopedic ward with 6 beds, all full, three whose ages were 93, 87,and 85, all of which had broken hips. Those elderly women laid in their beds NO LESS than five, yes I said 5 days, before they took them to surgery to fix those hips. The doctors would come in most every day and tell them that they were not an emergency situation and maybe tomorrow we will have time.
I had an IV port in my arm from surgery and it was used to main line my antibiotics by syringes. You took oral pain pills, no drip Iv's to sustain you. If you couldn't eat and drink on your own to sustain yourself you got weaker which I saw the elderly do. I don't know if my 93 year old roommate made it through her surgery. I never saw her again after they took her to "theater".
The pain of those aged women lying with badly broken bones, in bed getting joustled about all week in the name of cleanliness was cruel and depressing. I am sure they did not care to get a bath or clean sheets by the sounds of their protests and crys. They wanted medical help! As sick as I was I knew I was the lucky one.
Remember we are are closer to the United Kingdom than any other country in the world by the way we live and have compassion. They are living with this horrible health system and we could be next if the powers in Washington force it upon us.
I don't believe any of us are going to want a national socialized health care. Everyone will suffer except those in control who set it up for the masses.Do you want your family member lying in a bed suffering for days because they aren't precieved as an emergency? Yes it is expensive to have health insurance in the United States but we do have health care that far outweighs what I saw in the United Kingdom.
God bless and help us to keep our leading doctors, specialists and research doctors. We will loose all of that with the new reform and the rest of the world depends on us to be leaders in health care and prevention. They come here to our doctors and hospitals when they
can not get a life saving procedure in a timely fashion in their socialized country of health care.We are the United States of America and we need to start protecting our valuable human resourses, the citizens of The United States of America. Wake up before it is too late America!Karen T Sparks
Bartlesville Oklahoma
Well, Karen, let me tell you something: you are a propaganda pusher. You are ignorant, arrogant beyond belief and your “concern” for the “citizens of the United States of America” is a facade. What you *really* care about is covering your own ass. You, as a fully insured person with enough material wealth to be traveling abroad, don’t want things to change FOR YOU. You don’t give a rat’s ass about the 40 million Americans without any health insurance, or the millions more who are underinsured. You speak only to those fortunate enough to have jobs or pensions with good health benefits attached; those middle class and educated enough to have access to the state-of-the-art facilities your pampered ass is used to being in. You consider health care a business and you are a customer whose needs and demands must be met and satisfied at all times. And as long as that happens, you’re happy.
How DARE you take your one isolated experience of socialised health care and use it to make direct comparisons and predictions for what health care reform would mean for America? How DARE you tell me, an American citizen who went uninsured for several years because I couldn’t afford it and now, as a UK resident with instant and unlimited access to health care based on my status as a HUMAN BEING instead of as PAYING CUSTOMER, that I’m the one missing out? How DARE you tell the people who arent insured, or who don’t have adequate insurance, that they don’t matter, so long as you get your clean, private room and your husband gets his own personal PR agent to hold his hand while he waits for news of your progress?
You say you were confused, your questions unanswered. Do you think that perhaps it had more to do with the fact that you were already in an unfamiliar environment, in an unfamiliar system in a foreign country, than with the system itself? That perhaps because of that, you were too scared and unsure of yourselves to ask the proper questions? That perhaps you were too arrogant to bother asking them at all, too shocked that someone wasn’t spoon feeding it to you through an IV drip so you didn’t have to do any work at all? Because that’s what you want, right? To lie back and let the doctors do their work on your behalf, sure that they have your best interests at heart since you’re a goddamn American citizen and therefore the best, most worthy patient in the world?
Karen T. Sparks, socialised medicine isn’t sick…you are. And I’ll tell you why.
I have two children and don’t work outside the home. I take care of them while my husband works to pay our mortgage and bills. We are very fortunate to be able to do this, and we know it. Many people need two incomes to even make their basic payments. We are blessed, and lucky. My husband likes his job but if he didn’t, he would be free to go out and look for another where he’d be happier. He can change jobs without endangering his family’s ability to access health care. He could even lose his job and we’d be okay. If worse came to worst and we had to sell our house and move in with family, at least we’d know that our health wasn’t compromised or that we’d be bankrupted in the process of making sure it wasn’t. We wouldn’t have to sit up at night with a sick and feverish child, agonising over whether to see how it goes a little longer or rush her into the hospital, thinking about what it’s going to cost us instead of focusing on getting our daughter well again.
When I went into the hospital to have my first baby, I didn’t have to fill out a bunch of insurance forms while I was in labour or sign a consent form allowing the doctors to perform a zillion procedures and interventions so that they could guarantee a perfect outcome and reduce the chance that I’d sue them. Because that’s what Americans do, right? If something goes wrong, they sue. If their hospital “experience” wasnt’ what they feel they paid for, they get a lawyer and they sue the shit out of the doctor, the nurse, the hospital, the janitor…whoever they can cut down with their merciless need to blame someone for all of life’s ills. You pride yourselves on your work ethic and bootstraps mentality, don’t you? You think you’re the greatest nation in the world and that you can do anything if you set your minds to it or are paying top dollar for it. You, and others like you, have gotten so above yourselves and stuck your heads so far up our own self-congratulatory asses that you have no time for things like Nature, or Death or Human Fallibility. You want only Service, Results and Accountability. Having a health care system based on ability to pay has turned you into clients, not patients, and your health care practitioners into business owners concerned only with the bottom line.
When I had my second child, I had a choice in where and how I gave birth. I wasn’t treated as a pod carrying a precious “pre-born person” who had more rights than me. Since I was healthy and having a baby is a natural process, I was given the option to give birth at home. I had two midwives in attendance and no drugs. No IV drip, no scalpel, no monitors or wires strapped to me, no paperwork to fill out. I birthed a baby and they were there in case anything went wrong. It didn’t.
I got one-to-one care and they even came back every couple day for the next few weeks to check on me and the baby so I didn’t have to get myself together and take a newborn baby into a doctor’s office full of sick people. Not once was I asked how I was paying or for proof that I had a right to receive their care. I was treated as a person, not a “customer.” Me and my baby were the bottom line, not what procedures and length of stay my insurance would cover.
Don’t get me wrong, the national health service here is not perfect. There are longer waiting times for non-life-threatening procedures and cleanliness and understaffing can be a problem. These problems are transparent because they are government run and therefore constantly in the public eye, up for scrutiny, as they should be. Though an imperfect system, the NHS is always striving to improve. The American system is not perfect either, though. There are mistakes and long waits and dirty hospitals and not enough staff to go around and aged women are left in pain on gurneys and alone on hospital beds. You just don’t know about it because you don’t have to frequent the facilities where these problems are more prevalent. You don’t see this because you have insurance, and good coverage at that. You are blind to the inadequate care that millions and millions of Americans receive (or don’t receive at all) because they aren’t valued top-paying customers. You are in the VIP room of health care; you are so blind to your privilege that you don’t know any other room even exists.
You may have noticed that I keep using the pronoun ‘they’ when talking about Americans, and that I must not identify as one. Well, I was born and raised in America. I will always be American. I love my country. But I hate the mentalities of many of its citizens and how it is run. This resistance to change is a resistance to criticise yourselves. And a society that cannot criticise itself and work to change for the better — to evolve and grow as a nation — is not a healthy one, nor one that I want to be a part of. Callous disregard for such as basic human right as the right to health care is not something I want to be a part of anymore. As much as I miss my family and the land of my childhood, and as many good qualities as America has, I can never go back. I can never go back because it is not the country I thought it was. It is so sick that it doesn’t even KNOW it’s sick and refuses to take any medicine. All the pleading and cajoling in the world won’t make that bitter pill go down, as sad as that is. So like any sane person who can’t take anymore, I proclaim to wash my hands of it. Let them get sick and die in their millions then! I won’t be witness to it anymore. I’m finished.
Except, I can’t turn away. My family and my friends still live there, and my children are American citizens, too. One day we’d like to move back and allow them to experience that part of their heritage — MY heritage — but I refuse to take them to a place that doesn’t value their health as a right, but a privilege. It would be like taking a step backwards in time after having seen the future. I won’t make them feel like second-class citizens if they are not fortunate enough to have good jobs with good insurance, or force them to stay in jobs they hate so they can go to the doctor when they need to. I’d rather never see my homeland again then expose them to a system that disregards its most vulnerable citizens in such a callous way. I’d want them to know the beauty and the aching kindnesses that I know are somewhere underneath all the layers of fear and hate, but I don’t think Iv’e got the strength, or enough shovels, to dig them out.
So, Karen T. Sparks, I will take my socialised health care over the American system any day of the week. I am saddened and angered that people such as yourself , who I’m sure are caring and kind, can be taken in by the propaganda and be blind to the changes that are needed. It takes courage and humanity to move from a hierarchical system to a more equitable one and I guess in that department, America is sorely lacking. The land of the free and the home of the brave, indeed. You’re so shackled by the IDEA of freedom that you don’t even know what it is anymore. Those of us living under socialised health care don’t need or want your pity. It is us who pity you.
God bless America? God save America.
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- Comments(51)
Very well said. I think you should send it to her.
Thank you, that’s spot on. This is an issue that’s being driven and distorted by the smug legion of people who have (what they assume) is good healthcare coverage, and are only concerned about keeping it. Where is our compassion for everyone who lacks healthcare? Forget compassion, where is at least a pragmatic understanding that keeping the rest of the country healthier (and wealthier) makes for a stronger country for all of us? We are doomed as long as we view healthcare as a commodity instead of a right. Check out Regina Holliday’s story (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/06/widow-paints-plea-for-ref_n_252846.html), I had the honor of meeting her a few days ago. It inspired me to schedule a visit to my local senator’s office later this week, to express in person my concern for what is and isn’t being done about the issue. I feel like the Democrats we put in office to make changes, are frittering away their great opportunity, on infighting and non-issues. Amity, can I print out your post and include it with the letters I am dropping off?
@Tasha – I’m so tempted, I really am. But she is a friend of my grandmother’s and much of my family are on that list. I don’t know if I have the courage or the patience to hit ‘Send’ on this and for the backlash that may occur. Sad, but true. But I’m still considering it…
@Staranela – I saw your message to me on Facebook and looked at the photos of that health care widow’s mural. That was right before I opened the above email. Together, the two inspired this post. So thank YOU. I am very impressed that you are actively going out and making your voice heard. We need more people like you doing just that. And of course you can use my post if you think it will help. I admire your hands-on approach. Please do keep me updated on how it’s going.
LOVE this.
I’d add that a society should be judged by the way it treats its most vulnerable – the sick and poor and young. by that measure the US has a long way to go
Thanks, Amity. I think there’s often a synchronicity in how women inspire each other, and it moves things forward. (Lol, I think I should get points for being able to work the title of one of my favorite Police songs into the conversation!) I’ve always had strong opinions on political topics, but if the Bush years taught me anything, its that maybe having opinions isn’t enough if you don’t do something, anything, to act on those opinions.
I think you put it extremely well and your thoughts, maybe in a milder form, would be well shared with the mailing list. And of course the NHS isn’t perfect (on that we can all agree) but it’s the best we’ve got. If I went back to live in Germany, I too would not have health insurance for me or my family, unless I had a job first. It’s not as privatised as in the US, but nonetheless I value the NHS for being extremely cost efficient and equal for all. If you want extra, you can have it and pay for it. Sounds fine by me.
Oh, and I too was much happier with approaches to antenatal care and giving birth than what is the norm in my home country.
Just brilliant. There is nothing more to add. Having had experience with VIP health care in the US and also years of national health service I would still pick NHS every time. I feel more like a ‘number’ and insurance client in America than a person. Time with a patient seems a much more precious commodity. And I guess I am lucky in that I have always had a good experience with drs and treatment in the UK (as I have here – but here I have had to pay through the nose for it, even with insurance). To receive a huge medical bill after giving birth to my first son, who died shortly after birth, was a big shock. We were paying it off for the next few months and it was a cruel reminder of the costs of the system vs. the fact that we had nothing to show for it but broken hearts.
Now THIS is a proper rant. And it’s right on. Good for you.
Fantastic post! Its so well said….I kinda wish you’d send it to the foolish woman. But I can understand not wanting to deal with ridiculous backlash.
It seems to me that someone is in need of a mirror. Yes, perhaps Karen Sparks is “selfish” for wanting to keep the system which is better for her, rather than switch to another system to benefit other people – but she’s hardly alone there. Indeed, that’s exactly the impression I get of this blog post itself, the NHS is better for her (since other people pay for it) – so out comes the vitriol for anyone who prefers a system which is better for themselves rather than for her. Expecting people like Karen – by far the majority of the US – to give up their current care AND contribute large amounts of money for the benefit of another group seems pretty selfish and unrealistic to me – and to attack Karen for opposing this change, when all she asks is to be left alone, is very depressing to witness.
My position is certainly influenced by having had extremely negative experiences of the NHS first-hand – I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy. I could understand simply *disagreeing* with Karen, but the level of vitriol hurled at her for opposing a change which is not in her interests is wrong.
I don’t think you can equate wanting to keep a system that works for you and includes EVERYONE else, with wanting to keep a system that works for you regardless of the fact that it excludes so many people. Yes, it is selfish to think your needs and wants trump everyone else’s.
I would much rather extend Medicaid to uninsured/underinsured Americans rather than create an entirely new government-run health system. And when I read articles like the one where I’ve included the link below, it frightens me even further. I don’t want to give up the right to switch insurance companies if I so desire. Nor do I want to be forced to buy into a government-run healthcare system that I will never use. I think fixing Medicaid and smaller government programs would be wiser IMO. That way people with no insurance would get the help that they need, and those of us who are happy with our own private insurance companies, or those of our employer, can stick with what works best for us. The trick here is to extend Medicaid or some other government program to all the people that are uninsured, which I’m certain could be done.
http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=332548165656854
@jen – Agreed 100%
@Staranela – “If the Bush years taught me anything…” Funnily enough, I think I learned the most about our country under its worst leader (in my lifetime, anyway). Unfortunately, what I learned often wasn’t nice.
@cartside – I never knew that Germany used an insurance system. Is it requisite for receiving care? I’m also interested in what you say about the antenatal care. What about Germany’s antenatal care is lacking, in your opinion?
@nicola – Yes, one does often feel more like a number than a person under the US system, I agree. To receive bills for your son’s birth after he’d passed away must’ve been horrible. I know my parents were paying my sister’s medical bills for quite awhile after she died and it was like rubbing salt in the wound.
@Grace – Thank you. I didn’t know you were still reading! Nice to see you stick your head in.
@Jenny – Yeah, I just don’t think it would be productive. Better to rant here than start WWIII via email.
@James – That’s just it though, she wouldn’t have to “give up her current care” in order for others to be provided with it. If she (and others) could afford private insurance and wanted that as an extra assurance on top of the national health plan, and so that she could carry on being seen by a private doctor in a gleaming facility with a surgeon who will hold her husband’s hand while she has surgery, no one would be stopping her from purchasing it. She’s already paying a percentage of her salary towards her health insurance, it would just mean having to source it privately instead of it being automatically granted through an employer. No one who can already afford health insurance would be made to go without. It would merely be giving those who *are* going without care a chance to receive it regardless of their financial or job situation.
I think that’s the part that irks me the most — that people honestly believe that by extending a helping hand to others less fortunate than them, they will somehow be weakened or stepped on or have something taken away from them. That kind of sense of entitlement is basically saying “Screw the others, I want what’s MINE,” and it’s an ugly, horrible, selfish way to live. And besides which, it’s not even true. Our medical system is not going to fall apart and roll back 50 years in terms of advances and technology just because everyone has a right to care. If anything, it wil free us because we won’t be slaves to the insurance companies anymore.
@Frost at Midnight – That editorial you linked to has been debunked. They misinterpreted the legislation. Read here for more. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/jul/22/ibdeditorialscom/private-health-insurance-page-16-house-bill/ You will not have to give up your health insurance and you WILL be able to remain on private if you prefer. It just means there will be a minimum level of care they insurers have to provide and they won’t be able to exclude people based on pre-existing conditions anyway. Regulating the insurance companies is not the same as taking them away altogether.
Not only will you not be forced away from your own insurance onto the government plan, you will be prohibited from going with the government option if your employer offers you insurance. It’s not like the people putting this together aren’t haven’t thought about the issues and fears involved in reform. I like what I’ve heard about the Aussie system, from friends down there. You are encouraged and in fact, rewarded, for going the private insurance route. But, the government coverage is there for anyone who needs it. I’m sure it’s not perfect, no system is. But, I don’t understand why we can’t pick the parts that have worked for other countries and then add what we need to personalize it to America’s needs. What annoys and appalls me are the people who refuse to acknowledge or see that there are huge needs currently in what passes for a system in the US.
Excellent link, NS, thank you. Phew!
Great post! I’m appalled at the medical industry in the US. I certainly know that the NHS has its problems and is not perfect, but I’d rather an imperfect system to which everyone has equal access than an imperfect system operating solely for the benefit of the well off.
First I will say I love the US despite all its faults.
I often feel that we (US citizens) are all catagorized with the same loud obnoxious people that the media puts in the spotlight. We are should not all be judged by the comments of some. Most people in my small community are discussing (not screaming) about the pros and cons of NHC. We are civilized and caring. We want some type of NHC for all. We have concerns, stemming from the lack of TRUST with our politicians to be sure to make the best plan that fits the needs a such a HUGE country. We are a country that helps the needy and poor. There are health clinics that take payments on a sliding scale based on ones income or require no payment at all, you do not even have to be a citizen to receive the care. We cover the cost of housing, utilities, etc for many who are less fortunate.
Two areas that we are lacking in though include assistance for single men with no children and what is called the working poor. I have a job with benefits. Each year my costs for the benefits increase and the coverage becomes less. My husband is disabled and has been through 15 surgeries and still needs 2 more. I make enough money to barely keep my head above water and constantly have to make choices and sacrifices to keep us afloat. I don’t make alot of money but make just enough where we do not qualify for any type of assistance. Several months ago I discovered a lump in my breast and one in my armpit. I wanted to go to the doctor, but I worried what they would find and then I worried about the costs of care and treatment if they found something. If I had to be off work while incurring expensive medical treatment we would never finanicially survive that, especially since my husband is disabled. My mind began to try to rationalize this. Should I disregard this and just let nature take its course vs getting treatment and losing everything, and still maybe not surviving anyway. Then where would he be? Yeah, without a wife, but also without a home and without an income to support himself. A hell of a choice.
PS- I could not stand it any longer so I went to the doctor. All is well. But one should not have to be put in a position like that.
I don’t know the answer but we need to start somewhere.
One more question. Does your NHC cover prescription drugs?
We have a friend whose medicine alone runs around $3000 per month for his MS.
I love the passion with which you write.
I’m 100% with you, but I do think the article provokes something important. It is true that some of the older hospitals in the UK do have wards with several people in them. People in the UK just accept this, my mum just had her hip replaced (hardly any wait, great surgery, wonderful after care with home visits, NHS provided home assessment and accessories etc, she is so happy with her care, but she did share a ward with 5 other women the two days she was in the hospital after the surgery. It would not have occured to her that it would be any other way.
And it is true that many UK hospitals have archaic rules about visiting, for example my sisters husband was not allowed to stay in with my sister and their baby after she was born, and she was only allowed visitors for a short time, since she was on a ward. She wasn’t even allowed to use her cellphone, she had to queue up for a pay phone, which does have a rather penetentiary feel! whereas my husband stayed in my private room on a pull out couch after our kids were born.
There is this great fear among the insured here that their care would be compromised if the US had a system that covered everyone else. Selfish, sure, but it is a political fact that the reformers will have to convince the insured that they will not get worse care. I believe that we will all get better care with a government program in the mix, and when insurers are not allowed to turn away people who become too sick, and “max out” their coverage, and I’m holding my breath for it to happen.
How cool that you had a home birth, did you post about it?
@Staranela – Again, well said. People need to do some research before they start spreading misinformation. It’s so damaging.
@Frost at Midnight – No problem. It’s so annoying that some media are determined to misinterpret the legislation to push their own agenda. If you read something that sounds really extreme, unlikely or scary, always look it up and see if it’s been refuted or at least discussed somewhere else for clarification. It’s amazing how “loose with the truth” some publications are.
@Becky – Exactly.
@the bad aunt – Prescription drugs are free if you’re under 16, over 65, a student, pregnant, on disability or of limited financial means. If you don’t fall into any of those categories, each prescription costs just £7.20. No matter what drug it is, it’s always £7.20. And if you take a lot of different medications, you can buy a plan in which you pay an annual flat rate (£104). It’s wonderful. No one should be bankrupted by medications they need to stay alive and healthy. $3000 a month for medicine is ridiculous, no matter how you look at it.
@Iota – LOL! Yeah, I’m feisty, I am.
@geekymummy – Yes, I think that with regards to the wards, it’s just what you’re used to. If you’ve never known any different it wouldn’t seem like such a big deal. I think most people would prefer a private room, for sure, but it’s just not always realistic, unfortunately. It’s not a prerequisite for good care, though. Having a private room does not mean you get extra special attention, ya know? I too hate the visiting hours rules and do think they need to reformulate their policies on that because having emotional support is so important to how people cope with their illnesses and injuries and has a knock on effect to how they heal and their overall satisfaction with their care. Allowing more flexible visiting hours would only improve the care, though I suppose the reason they are so strict about it is precisely because they have patients in open wards who may want to get some sleep and not listen to their neighbour’s relatives yammering on all night.
I have indeed written about my homebirth, back in my September ’08 archives. My little ‘un will be one next month so I’ll be writing about it again nearer to his birthday.
@the bad aunt – Your first comment went into my spam filter for some reason so apologies for not responding to it previously. That’s horrible that you almost considered not seeking medical advice about the lumps because of what it could mean for you and your husband. That’s the kind of thing that should be totally unacceptable in a society as advanced in so many ways as ours. I’m glad it all turned out okay. And yes, I do agree that most people want some kind of happy medium. I just wish that more of them were actually doing their own research and thinking about what national health care would mean for everyone, not just themselves. Listening to what you hear on Fox News and horror stories from forwarded emails is not “informing yourself” but many people only seem to go that far in learning about the issues. I really hope that in the end most people can be at peace with whatever plan is put in place.
[...] in relation to the healthcare debate, i no longer feel the need to weigh in. i’m happy to nod along with others, but the level of invective being slung around has reached absurd [...]
Chris just pointed this out to me, which we thought was particularly amusing:
“People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn’t have a chance in the U.K., where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless.”
(From here: http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=333933006516877)
It’s not just personal email-forwarders who aren’t checking their facts!
As an American who has worked and trained in the American healthcare system and has lived in the UK for 7 years, 5.5 of which has seen me working for the NHS, I can only breathe a sigh of relief at your post. Yes, the NHS has its faults, but ask all of the nurses in America who support the change to a nationalised healthcare, and you’ll see that current American healthcare is full to the brim of problems as well. I would love to see anyone sceptical of the NHS to visit one of the charity fund-raising events that we hold for my unit each year and speak to the very satisfied and very grateful parents who have benefited from the amazing care we give on a daily basis (and they get to take their babies home and get on with raising them without ever having to pay a penny, apart from their deductions that everyone has from their pay, towards the thousands of pounds spent by the NHS each day that we cared for their little ones).
@the bad aunt – I’m also pretty sure that people with what is considered a chronic condition (which I’m sure MS would qualify for) get free prescriptions anyway – I know diabetics do.
Hi Amity, Liz from MFWL forum here! Love this post. What I don’t understand about American opposition to an NHS-type service is that we have private health care too, the person who wrote that email would almost certainly end up getting that, I’m sure!
Also, it scares me on a regular basis to hear (generally) Conservative people claiming that we need to get RID of national health care, using the excuse that they shouldn’t have to pay for a health service they don’t use. Which, I suppose, is a valid point. But when it comes out of your income tax along with everything else it doesn’t particularly hurt. Plus, earn more, you’ve got more to give away.
What really hurts me about these arguments is the presumption that you shouldn’t help your fellow human. My partner and I often daydream about what we might do, if/when we earn enough. Is it just the case that the people who are prepared to give are the people who have had very little and had to work for what they do have?
excellent post. i am so sick and tired of watching all the media coverage of the health insurance plan that’s being proposed. ‘socialism’ keeps coming up and how the death panels will come and kill all the old people. REALLY?! it’s completely disgusting and ignorant for these people to go to the town hall meetings and scream. they won’t even let their representative speak. how is there to be discussion when one side is prevented from speaking. this is an extremely important issue and people should be able to explain their thoughts and feelings on the matter. but, i would require those people to know the FACTS before they start screaming and spreading their propaganda.
why should insurance companies continue to get rich? it should be a non-profit organization based on human rights.
i could go on and on, but i digress…. thanks again for the excellent rant/post!
Get thee to the BBC Radio4 PM blog and post about this there! They were talking about exactly this on PM this evening and had a woman on who has used healthcare on both sides of the pond who dissed the NHS on all sorts of counts.
I lived in Mexico for a while and worried about needing healthcare there as we had no insurance. A friend had an accident in Cancun and went to an American run hospital who refused to release him without payment in full!
The bottom line for me is that despite waits, old buildings, odd rules and moe you can be run over by a bus and an ambulance will come and scrape you up for free. Not only that but they will send you back home eventually without an enormous shopping bill that includes every pair of gloves used to touch you and every syringe used to stab you.
I know of women on forums in the US who are panicked because they have a blood clotting disorder and multiple losses but their insurance won’t cover the full cost of Low Molecular Weight Heparin. LMWH protects us from blood clots and fatal pulmonary embolism as well as keeping the placenta clot free and little babies alive in their mothers’ uteri.
I have Protein S Deficiency but can afford to be pregnant here and inject LMWH every day without having to worry about my insurance not covering it. I can choose to birth at home if I want and will be visited by a midwife for 10 days post partum. I also get 6 months paid maternity leave and breastfeeding support. The US doesn’t want this? Why? Big Business.
Free at the point of delivery healthcare is essential or people die. The idea that one wouldn’t want to pay taxes to fund healthcare because one might not use it is abhorrent to me.
@Tasha – I read that about Stephen Hawking too, how ignorant the author of that article was! It’s almost laughable. I think it’s great that another reporter tracked Hawking down and asked him for his opinion on the NHS as a British citizen and he gave it a glowing review. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it, misleading, fear-mongering editorial!
@MandaAnda – I cannot imagine having to worry about how to pay for the care your child receives to keep him or her alive. What an unnecessary burden at such an already emotional time. It’s simply inhumane.
@Liz – Yes, it is exactly that complete disregard for other human beings’ lives that makes me shudder. What kind of lives do these people lead that all they can think about is themselves?
@adam – Have you been watching The Daily Show with regards to the town hall meetings? So funny! People screaming and shouting that Obama is a socialist and a communist. I wouldn’t be surprised if they thought he was an alien. For fuck’s sake, it makes you despair for human intelligence and compassion, doesn’t it?
@Rachel – I think it’s a bit rich that most Americans agree that education is essential for our advancement and well being and support schools being subsidized and run by the government but when it comes to our HEALTH, suddenly the gov’t needs to back off and leave it alone. Health, education, freedom…these are all human rights as far as I’m concerned, and non-negotiable.
Great post.
And you should send your rant back to Ms Karen T Sparks, plus all the comments from #welovetheNHS
NS, in response to your response to my comment… In Germany, there’s an insurance system which is semi nationalised. Anyone employed or in receipt of benefits (which you can only get if you at some time worked in a National INsurance contribution paying job in Germany) is eligible for this basic health insurance and automatically in it. However there’s loopholes: e.g. all my NI paying employment has been in the UK/Ireland, while in Germany I worked my backside off during semester breaks, but as a student you don’t pay NI – so I wouldn’t qualify for benefits if without a job in Germany and thus also not for health insurance. Only way around it is to get a NI paying job (even if only for a day) which then means the NI paying employment abroad counts and you can get health insurance. You can always get a private insurance if you’ve got the dosh though (although private insurers won’t take you if you’ve got severe health issues).
Antenatal care in Germany: hm, not lacking, just too medicalised in my liking. Not midwife led, you see obs, get strapped to monitors at every appointment, and get a scan every month. Then, at delivery, again electronic monitoring and only pain relief available is epidural – no gas and air, no diamorphine, no Tens machine. Less choices I suppose. C-section rates above UK. I felt very well looked after in the UK, even though I admittedly did some health tourism to Germany to get an occasional extra scan – I couldn’t resist (but then again, in Glasgow they only offer the 12 week scan so I don’t feel too bad for getting a 24 week one in Germany).
Well said. I’m so tired of hearing these apocryphal stories from the Far Right. I mean, why not apocryphal stories from the Left? Your story? My story? Why not? Because the Left chooses to try honesty rather than apocryphal and no doubt exaggerated stories. I’ve never had a bad experience in either Britain or Australia. I’m in the midst of some health problems right now and I would NEVER consider going back to the States to deal with it – not because of the quality of care, but the cost. Even with insurance, you’re out of pocket for deductibles and now it would be considered a pre-existing condition. I’ll keep my socialized medicine, thank you very much. I’m not even interested in using the private system here because I get the same if not better quality care in the public.
That being said. I’ve given up hope that the U.S. is going to get anything useful out of this debate. There’s too much shouting on one side and cowardice on the other.
I really don’t know how the mindset of the US will ever adjust enough for a fresh look at health care and their take on their own government.
It really shows the HUGE differences between the US and say Canada…where we eat, wear, watch all things american.
But we like our national healthcare. Flaws and all.
And yes..there are flaws..huge managerial flaws spawning from it being run provincially and therefore to provincial political agendas.
However…I have always received amazing care as has my family..from GP’s to specialists, to ER visits and the delivery of all my children with no hefty bills to pay or worry about.
But I don’t mind my money and tax dollars going to cover all people..not just me.
It is how we work here.
The US …with the capitalist mindset which really means..every man for himself mindset…the wild west rebel of old mindset….can’t get over this hurdle.
No matter how much BIG CORPS like ins cos are screwing people over for the mighty dollar…the search for the big bug is more respected than the care for people.
As much as individuals like to tout how charitable they are..the US can’t seem to get the idea of a nation supporting all.
The fear of illegal immigrants runs rampant through the forums on this topic..despite the fact that many happily employ illegals to clean their houses and yards and work for the lowest amount ever.
The fear of their own government is what boggles me.
That their government can’t do anything right….well you keep voting for them.
Why not DO something about it.
Demand changes in how the government is run..not just on what charismatic leader you have….
If your government is incompetent..get rid of those people.
But don’t base decisions on fear…get the facts right…figure out a system of care that works for the US…I can’t imagine ANY other countries models working in the US.
And am sick of the Right tossing around all the Hitler images and acting like all countries with social medicine are socialist or communist and we all exist with bread lines and grim shoddy health care.
Beautifully ranted!
I’ve received these same sorts of emails and it was beginning to wear me down. I was just so astounded by the misinformation and lies that I could hardly summon the energy to speak the truth. And then it hit a point — like you, I had to say something and I found the energy. America deserve as much from her citizens abroad.
Uh, I work for Aberdeen Royal Infirmary and all I can say is… that woman is a spoiled brat and I think someone should accidentally send her the link to this blog post… You’ve put it all very beautifully, totally spot on. I’d rather have a less glitzy waiting room and have guaranteed, free help that won’t bankrupt me when I’m sick than a Hollywood razzmatazz ward and celebrity-chef food and have to go into debt just because I had the audacity to be ill. All this scaremongering is so sickening and horrifying to me, and makes me rather ashamed to be an American, and I too will sadly probably never move back to the US until the health care system is totally overhauled. I just wish I could get my parents the heck out of Dodge too.
[...] much as I welcome debate and am passionate about the issues that mean a lot to me, and as often as I am willing to call people out on their shitty behaviour or [...]
How DARE Karen T Sparks insult the health care available in the UK. Perhaps you should have got the next flight home and had your operation there. No, perhaps you thought you were on to a good thing and got it free here. 7 hours and you were in theatre, not too bad in my opinion.
Ok so most of the hospitals are built for a purpose, to make people better. They may be a bit old and dingy but are generally clean nower days and do the job they were built for, not like the big posh private hospitals we see on ER etc.
So what if yo never saw the person who operated on you, he did his job, proberbly a few more and went home, the guy has a life.
You are such a biggot critisising my countries health care system, at least we do not have people going bankrupt cos they can’t afford to health care or going without food.
England may be slightly socialist, more so under the Labour Government but we are a true democracy like the US. We are definately not communist which is the shit the Republican party is trying to scare you with.
On CNN last night Americans are crying in the streets over being socialists, get over it, companies will pull the plug on health care so more AMericans will be up shit street.
Ok rant over.
In th eUK we pay about 10% of our salary for health care, which is capped at about £250.00 a month. This tax is also to pay for your old age pension and unemployment benefits. We do pay a lot more for petrol but tend to drive cars that do over 50mpg, rather than gas guzzling cars, so all works out about the same.
As far as drugs, you will pay £7 for a prescription per drug, or you can pre pay £80 a month and all drugs are included. So no running over to Canada for cheaper drugs.
My dad had a quadrouple bypass 10 years ago, cost him nothing. I have had a few minor ops over th elast year plus a MRI scan, cost nothing. My wife (who is American) gave birth and that cost nothing. PLus there are not 20 people in the room. Just a Mid Wife and a Doctor if needed.
I think Americans are over medicated in the hospital, too much catering for customer service, your health system is just out for Uncle Sam-PROFIT.
I hope Obama gets his way and people like Karen Sparks never end up with something horris where the insurance runs out and she end up selling her house to pay for it. But I think there are Americans out there who are so pig headed that they will go that route.
Whatever happens we all end up dead and that costs us nothing.
Keep up the good work, NS. Don’t let the army of deceit get you down. My head hurt from nodding so much whilst reading your post!! I think I even said a few Amens as well.
Great post. The thing that really gets me about the whole debate is that it is generally the Christian right who’s most up in arms about it. Jesus would be so proud of their lack of concern for the plight of those less fortunate than them.
There’s a poll going around on Facebook right now about this very issue. Sadly, when I “signed” it it was well over 500,000 AGAINST the new bill and only 175,000 for it.
I don’t know if it’s just been making the conservative rounds or if that’s a good gauge of how people really feel about.
A friend of mine recently blogged about this (she’s Canadian) and she doesn’t understand why we can’t have both a government sponsored program and the private, because in her opinion, she wants the option of going to a private doctor/specialist/whatever.
The problem I see in this two-tiered program (and I know a lot of other people do, too) is that it creates a Have and Have-Not all over again, except instead of Having or Not Having insurance, it’s money. Which is what this is all about anyway.
This problem is so large and so complex… the medical field here is built entirely on economics and solutions. Not prevention and maintenance. It’s almost like we’re trying to rebuild our system with all the wrong parts.
I dunno…
Loved your rant. (As usual.)
Attention concerned Americans – Look at the names on the biggest, tallest buildings in any big American city and you will probably see an insurance company name. Why is that? Ever try to go into one of those insurance company buildings personally to discuss a claim? You will probably have to have an appointment, be buzzed into a reception area by a guard, and a representative will come down to you – you will not get past that small secure room. Do you think that is because the insurance companies have kept all their customers happy? I doubt it. I’ve worked in healthcare for years and until the last couple of months I seem to remember hearing the majority of patients complain about their insurance plans, but suddenly they are so happy with them? I doubt it. We need to stop listening to all the crap that is put out there by the big news media programs and sit down and read this proposed plan. Why are we letting other people decide for us how to interpret this plan? I have heard so much that is not true it is ridiculous. As for Ms. Sparks I wonder if she had insurance to cover her while she was traveling outside the US? Or will she be so very happy that the UK has the NHS when she needed it?
Great repost, NS. Should definitely send it to her.
I presume Karen T Sparks got her treatment in the UK for free? If so, perhaps she should thank the good tax-payers of the UK for keeping her alive instead of complaining about her treatment at the hands of the communist-run NHS. (Because we all know that “socialist” really means “communist”, and that communism is a Bad Thing).
Great post, by the way.
Not all Christians are members of the wacky right-wing, and foaming at the mouth against Healthcare reform. Check out the Sojourners Healthcare reform resources page http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=action.display&item=HC09-main , and share it as an answer back when you start getting the misinformed or warped rhetoric from that neck of the woods.
[...] http://noblesavage.me.uk/2009/08/10/socialism-fever-america-is-dying/ [...]
[...] of the most interesting have been from Americans with experiences of both systems. For example, an American now living in the UK responded to a circulated e-mail from a family friend describing he…, and here an American who had married a Brit but recently moved back to the US compares the [...]
Malvernian, that was my first thought as well. I bet she didn’t have to pay a penny for all that care.
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Awesome rant. I’d send it. My parents once sent me that ridiculous email ranting about an EID stamp the post office was offering and I sent back a thorough debunking of it, called out the prejudice in it. If anything, I stopped getting those nasty, right-wing emails.
I’ve read a couple of your blog posts and have really enjoyed them.
[...] loved this post at Noble Savage. She can tell it like it [...]
[...] and measured response to the health care debate in America instead of my swearing, guns-blazing rant. But then again, I’m not known for being well-reasoned and [...]