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	<title>Comments on: Tackling the Big Two: maternity leave and childcare</title>
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		<title>By: cartside</title>
		<link>http://noblesavage.me.uk/2009/03/31/tackling-the-big-two-maternity-leave-and-childcare/comment-page-1/#comment-2884</link>
		<dc:creator>cartside</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 22:38:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noblesavage.me.uk/2009/03/31/tackling-the-big-two-maternity-leave-and-childcare/#comment-2884</guid>
		<description>I wasn&#039;t aware of these proposal and find them interesting. Two points to add: the German system is similar - one year parental leave at 65% of income, and the option of father taking some of it, if he takes 2 months in the first year, parental leave for either partner is increased by 2 months I think. Before, it was possible to split the year and many men took up the opportunity - so it may really work here too.
Second point-I changed jobs while pregnant and wasn&#039;t entitled to statutory maternity pay. My employer was helpful by granting me contractual mat pay at 100% for 17 weeks, so hurray for them. What I don&#039;t understand is why pregnant women who change employment (with no break in employment) are penalised by not being eligible for stat. mat. pay. It discourages career moves, and the argument that the employer doesn&#039;t want to pay for someone who hasn&#039;t been with them doesn&#039;t count as SMP is actually reimbursed to the employer by the state. So why this gap? And why not grant additonal mat leave to anyone regardless of continous employment with same employer? (I had to go back after 5 months just because I had the audacity to change jobs although I had worked for 11 years without a break in employment). I think it&#039;s important to have the option of one year&#039;s leave as it&#039;s proven to be good for parent and child. It should not depend on continuous employment with the same employer. Whatever the changes will be, for now I&#039;m glad that at least we&#039;re up to 9 months for everyone. I hope very much though that 12 months should be an option for everyone in the near future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wasn&#8217;t aware of these proposal and find them interesting. Two points to add: the German system is similar &#8211; one year parental leave at 65% of income, and the option of father taking some of it, if he takes 2 months in the first year, parental leave for either partner is increased by 2 months I think. Before, it was possible to split the year and many men took up the opportunity &#8211; so it may really work here too.<br />
Second point-I changed jobs while pregnant and wasn&#8217;t entitled to statutory maternity pay. My employer was helpful by granting me contractual mat pay at 100% for 17 weeks, so hurray for them. What I don&#8217;t understand is why pregnant women who change employment (with no break in employment) are penalised by not being eligible for stat. mat. pay. It discourages career moves, and the argument that the employer doesn&#8217;t want to pay for someone who hasn&#8217;t been with them doesn&#8217;t count as SMP is actually reimbursed to the employer by the state. So why this gap? And why not grant additonal mat leave to anyone regardless of continous employment with same employer? (I had to go back after 5 months just because I had the audacity to change jobs although I had worked for 11 years without a break in employment). I think it&#8217;s important to have the option of one year&#8217;s leave as it&#8217;s proven to be good for parent and child. It should not depend on continuous employment with the same employer. Whatever the changes will be, for now I&#8217;m glad that at least we&#8217;re up to 9 months for everyone. I hope very much though that 12 months should be an option for everyone in the near future.</p>
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		<title>By: Coding Mamma (Tasha)</title>
		<link>http://noblesavage.me.uk/2009/03/31/tackling-the-big-two-maternity-leave-and-childcare/comment-page-1/#comment-2853</link>
		<dc:creator>Coding Mamma (Tasha)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2009 11:57:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noblesavage.me.uk/2009/03/31/tackling-the-big-two-maternity-leave-and-childcare/#comment-2853</guid>
		<description>This is very interesting, NS. The increase in paid paternity leave is particularly good, and overall it seems to be giving a better deal. 

I think another important thing is for there not to be a limit on how long you have been in a company before you&#039;re entitled to paid maternity leave, as the experience of Tara&#039;s friend shows.

I went back to work immediately. I came home and sent some invoices out one day while Rosemary was still in SCBU, and was doing a couple of hours work a day within a week of her being home. After a couple of weeks, I developed the ability to grab working time whenever Rosemary slept. I didn&#039;t do any housework or pretty much anything else other than look after her and work when she slept, but Chris was here to pick up the slack (and had already been doing so through the last few months of the pregnancy). But it&#039;s a lot easier to do all that when you work from home and when your husband also works from home. 

But... I also couldn&#039;t have taken maternity leave. When self-employed, all you&#039;re entitled to is the statutory maternity pay, and you can only take that if you do no work. No work at all. Which means my sending out invoices or doing two hours scheduling or something would mean I would not be entitled to the incredibly measley statutory pay. There is absolutely no way that we could have paid the mortgage and bills if I wasn&#039;t working at least a bit during that time. As it was, Chris had to increase his workload, so he was working at least 10-hour days most of the time, as well as doing lots of extra household chores that I couldn&#039;t fit in. The only way it would have been vaguely possible was if I had been sensible and organised (which I should have, really) and saved enough money to cover my share of the outgoings for six months. But it probably would have taken six years to save that kind of money. In addition, I couldn&#039;t do completely no work at all, because there are some things that only I can do (not bragging, just being accurate). Approximately 10 hours a month I would say is taken up by jobs only I could do. If I was not doing them, during that time, the clients would stop coming to us for those jobs, because they would have to find someone else during those 6 months and then why would they suddenly stop using that someone else just because I was back at work?

Personally (and obviously I&#039;m biased here), I think there needs to be government money available to pay self-employed women (and men) the same money for six months (or however much other women and men end up getting under the new proposals) as they have earnt in the previous six months. Otherwise, very few of us will take proper maternity leave. All that said, though, addressing the issues for employees is of greater priority, as there are still huge problems, both legal and perceptual, that need sorting out.

Anyway, there are some of my thoughts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is very interesting, NS. The increase in paid paternity leave is particularly good, and overall it seems to be giving a better deal. </p>
<p>I think another important thing is for there not to be a limit on how long you have been in a company before you&#8217;re entitled to paid maternity leave, as the experience of Tara&#8217;s friend shows.</p>
<p>I went back to work immediately. I came home and sent some invoices out one day while Rosemary was still in SCBU, and was doing a couple of hours work a day within a week of her being home. After a couple of weeks, I developed the ability to grab working time whenever Rosemary slept. I didn&#8217;t do any housework or pretty much anything else other than look after her and work when she slept, but Chris was here to pick up the slack (and had already been doing so through the last few months of the pregnancy). But it&#8217;s a lot easier to do all that when you work from home and when your husband also works from home. </p>
<p>But&#8230; I also couldn&#8217;t have taken maternity leave. When self-employed, all you&#8217;re entitled to is the statutory maternity pay, and you can only take that if you do no work. No work at all. Which means my sending out invoices or doing two hours scheduling or something would mean I would not be entitled to the incredibly measley statutory pay. There is absolutely no way that we could have paid the mortgage and bills if I wasn&#8217;t working at least a bit during that time. As it was, Chris had to increase his workload, so he was working at least 10-hour days most of the time, as well as doing lots of extra household chores that I couldn&#8217;t fit in. The only way it would have been vaguely possible was if I had been sensible and organised (which I should have, really) and saved enough money to cover my share of the outgoings for six months. But it probably would have taken six years to save that kind of money. In addition, I couldn&#8217;t do completely no work at all, because there are some things that only I can do (not bragging, just being accurate). Approximately 10 hours a month I would say is taken up by jobs only I could do. If I was not doing them, during that time, the clients would stop coming to us for those jobs, because they would have to find someone else during those 6 months and then why would they suddenly stop using that someone else just because I was back at work?</p>
<p>Personally (and obviously I&#8217;m biased here), I think there needs to be government money available to pay self-employed women (and men) the same money for six months (or however much other women and men end up getting under the new proposals) as they have earnt in the previous six months. Otherwise, very few of us will take proper maternity leave. All that said, though, addressing the issues for employees is of greater priority, as there are still huge problems, both legal and perceptual, that need sorting out.</p>
<p>Anyway, there are some of my thoughts.</p>
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		<title>By: Shannon</title>
		<link>http://noblesavage.me.uk/2009/03/31/tackling-the-big-two-maternity-leave-and-childcare/comment-page-1/#comment-2800</link>
		<dc:creator>Shannon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Apr 2009 18:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noblesavage.me.uk/2009/03/31/tackling-the-big-two-maternity-leave-and-childcare/#comment-2800</guid>
		<description>Fascinating topic and one of my favourites by far.  

Firstly, I don&#039;t have any knowledge of breastfeeding in England, other than a few friends I have who live there who all decided against nursing &quot;because it&#039;s not really done over here&quot;.  I was surprised to hear that, and I&#039;m interested to research more and find out if it&#039;s because of lack of support and education on the subject.

I am from Canada and we have a one year maternity leave.  Depending on your employer, you can earn up to 98 per cent of your pay for the entire year you&#039;re off.  Did that happen to me?  Certainly not!!  I&#039;m a teacher so I had minimum pay but at least it was something to keep me going.  There are a wide variety of different paternal leaves offered here, and the government supports any father wanting to take time off.

As you mentioned, in our situation my husband made so much more money than me, that it was not realistic for him to take a leave.  He does software engineering and works in high tech, so he didn&#039;t have a hefty &quot;top up&quot; like public service jobs do.  We couldn&#039;t have lived without his full salary, especially with our most recent and third baby.   Ironically, my husband was laid off in January of this year and only started a new job yesterday, so he was home with our children for two full months.  It was EYE OPENING for him and he has a new and enthusiastic respect for what I do.

And to be honest, me being the one to take the full year leaves with each baby made sense to use b/c of I breastfed all them for at least a year.  Two of my kids wouldn&#039;t even take a bottle so it was easier for me to be at home and nurse them on demand.  (Obviously had I chosen to go back to work and the babies were forced to drink expressed milk or starve, I&#039;m sure they would have taken it, but I never made it much past an hour or two of them crying!)

That being said, I would say that at least half of our friends have had a husband take part of their leave.  Often a woman will take 10 months and the husband two.  It is becoming more and more common here, and that is a step in the right direction.  (Of course, we are in the upper-middle class category and thus most of our friends have two university-educated parents with decently paying jobs.  The situation is likely very different in the lower class.)

I have several close friends - one a lawyer, one running a small company - who went to work after about 4-5 months leave.  Now, in Canada this is a SHORT time to be off b/c many take the full one year leave.  These women definitely returned to work for the success and advancement of their career.  One did not breastfeed and the other had a very pleasant office that supported her pumping and gave her a comfortable and private place in which to do it.  Both had complete success returning to work early, although that may not always happen, I&#039;m sure.

I totally agree with you on the childcare front.  We are sadly lacking here in this country, in my opinion.  Childcare is still unaffordable for many.  I mean, I am a reasonably-paid teacher and cannot afford to send my three young children to day care on my salary.  GIVE ME A BREAK.  I work in a school - where better to have a government subsidized day care!!????  I seriously contemplate moving to Sweden some days - they&#039;ve got it goin&#039; on in the mat leave and day care categories.

Of course I should be compensated if I choose to be home with my kids, I would have to support that :-)  Or even worse, if I don&#039;t choose it but have to do it b/c I can&#039;t afford to work.

Was this incoherent and disjointed?  Of course, I&#039;m a mom of three little ones and don&#039;t get enough sleep!!  But fabulous post, I loved reading it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fascinating topic and one of my favourites by far.  </p>
<p>Firstly, I don&#8217;t have any knowledge of breastfeeding in England, other than a few friends I have who live there who all decided against nursing &#8220;because it&#8217;s not really done over here&#8221;.  I was surprised to hear that, and I&#8217;m interested to research more and find out if it&#8217;s because of lack of support and education on the subject.</p>
<p>I am from Canada and we have a one year maternity leave.  Depending on your employer, you can earn up to 98 per cent of your pay for the entire year you&#8217;re off.  Did that happen to me?  Certainly not!!  I&#8217;m a teacher so I had minimum pay but at least it was something to keep me going.  There are a wide variety of different paternal leaves offered here, and the government supports any father wanting to take time off.</p>
<p>As you mentioned, in our situation my husband made so much more money than me, that it was not realistic for him to take a leave.  He does software engineering and works in high tech, so he didn&#8217;t have a hefty &#8220;top up&#8221; like public service jobs do.  We couldn&#8217;t have lived without his full salary, especially with our most recent and third baby.   Ironically, my husband was laid off in January of this year and only started a new job yesterday, so he was home with our children for two full months.  It was EYE OPENING for him and he has a new and enthusiastic respect for what I do.</p>
<p>And to be honest, me being the one to take the full year leaves with each baby made sense to use b/c of I breastfed all them for at least a year.  Two of my kids wouldn&#8217;t even take a bottle so it was easier for me to be at home and nurse them on demand.  (Obviously had I chosen to go back to work and the babies were forced to drink expressed milk or starve, I&#8217;m sure they would have taken it, but I never made it much past an hour or two of them crying!)</p>
<p>That being said, I would say that at least half of our friends have had a husband take part of their leave.  Often a woman will take 10 months and the husband two.  It is becoming more and more common here, and that is a step in the right direction.  (Of course, we are in the upper-middle class category and thus most of our friends have two university-educated parents with decently paying jobs.  The situation is likely very different in the lower class.)</p>
<p>I have several close friends &#8211; one a lawyer, one running a small company &#8211; who went to work after about 4-5 months leave.  Now, in Canada this is a SHORT time to be off b/c many take the full one year leave.  These women definitely returned to work for the success and advancement of their career.  One did not breastfeed and the other had a very pleasant office that supported her pumping and gave her a comfortable and private place in which to do it.  Both had complete success returning to work early, although that may not always happen, I&#8217;m sure.</p>
<p>I totally agree with you on the childcare front.  We are sadly lacking here in this country, in my opinion.  Childcare is still unaffordable for many.  I mean, I am a reasonably-paid teacher and cannot afford to send my three young children to day care on my salary.  GIVE ME A BREAK.  I work in a school &#8211; where better to have a government subsidized day care!!????  I seriously contemplate moving to Sweden some days &#8211; they&#8217;ve got it goin&#8217; on in the mat leave and day care categories.</p>
<p>Of course I should be compensated if I choose to be home with my kids, I would have to support that <img src='http://noblesavage.me.uk/WP/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />   Or even worse, if I don&#8217;t choose it but have to do it b/c I can&#8217;t afford to work.</p>
<p>Was this incoherent and disjointed?  Of course, I&#8217;m a mom of three little ones and don&#8217;t get enough sleep!!  But fabulous post, I loved reading it.</p>
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		<title>By: NS</title>
		<link>http://noblesavage.me.uk/2009/03/31/tackling-the-big-two-maternity-leave-and-childcare/comment-page-1/#comment-2794</link>
		<dc:creator>NS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 21:14:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noblesavage.me.uk/2009/03/31/tackling-the-big-two-maternity-leave-and-childcare/#comment-2794</guid>
		<description>Sorry for late replies, been busy with birthday party planning for a very special three-year-old. :)

@John - I don&#039;t know if the measures will pass either but I really hope they do. If David Cameron wasn&#039;t a Tory I&#039;d daresay he might actually pass it but as it is, I doubt the gov&#039;t will do anything to piss off small business owners right now. 

Very good point about fathers being pressured not to take their full leave, I (sadly) agree. But you know the only way to combat this? For men who are unfairly pressured not to take their leave to stand up and complain about it. That&#039;s what women have had to do in combatting sexual harassment and discrimination in the workplace. Staying silent and suffering the consequences just won&#039;t do any longer. I realise this is easier said than done, especially when one&#039;s job is on the line, but if men don&#039;t stand up for themselves, who will? 

Totally agree with you re: the points you mentioned to do with breastfeeding. 

@Tara - I feel for your friend; so many women find themselves in the same situation. I&#039;m glad to hear she got longer leave with her second two and I&#039;m sure her firstborn is doing just fine. Kids are so resilient; it&#039;s us mums whose memories (and guilt) take longer to fade.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry for late replies, been busy with birthday party planning for a very special three-year-old. <img src='http://noblesavage.me.uk/WP/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>@John &#8211; I don&#8217;t know if the measures will pass either but I really hope they do. If David Cameron wasn&#8217;t a Tory I&#8217;d daresay he might actually pass it but as it is, I doubt the gov&#8217;t will do anything to piss off small business owners right now. </p>
<p>Very good point about fathers being pressured not to take their full leave, I (sadly) agree. But you know the only way to combat this? For men who are unfairly pressured not to take their leave to stand up and complain about it. That&#8217;s what women have had to do in combatting sexual harassment and discrimination in the workplace. Staying silent and suffering the consequences just won&#8217;t do any longer. I realise this is easier said than done, especially when one&#8217;s job is on the line, but if men don&#8217;t stand up for themselves, who will? </p>
<p>Totally agree with you re: the points you mentioned to do with breastfeeding. </p>
<p>@Tara &#8211; I feel for your friend; so many women find themselves in the same situation. I&#8217;m glad to hear she got longer leave with her second two and I&#8217;m sure her firstborn is doing just fine. Kids are so resilient; it&#8217;s us mums whose memories (and guilt) take longer to fade.</p>
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		<title>By: Tara@Sticky Fingers</title>
		<link>http://noblesavage.me.uk/2009/03/31/tackling-the-big-two-maternity-leave-and-childcare/comment-page-1/#comment-2792</link>
		<dc:creator>Tara@Sticky Fingers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 09:35:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noblesavage.me.uk/2009/03/31/tackling-the-big-two-maternity-leave-and-childcare/#comment-2792</guid>
		<description>I have a friend who went back to work after 2 and a half months (because she hadn&#039;t worked at the company for long enough to qualify for full maternity leave and she just couldn&#039;t afford not to). 
She says it is one of her big regrets and she thinks about it all the time and how it could have affected her son. she has since had two more children and took 9 months off with both of those, but that first one always plays on her mind.
Fabulous post NS, and something that will continue to be a really thorny subject.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a friend who went back to work after 2 and a half months (because she hadn&#8217;t worked at the company for long enough to qualify for full maternity leave and she just couldn&#8217;t afford not to).<br />
She says it is one of her big regrets and she thinks about it all the time and how it could have affected her son. she has since had two more children and took 9 months off with both of those, but that first one always plays on her mind.<br />
Fabulous post NS, and something that will continue to be a really thorny subject.</p>
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